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Advanced Tzitzit Tying: How tight should I make the first knot?

If you already know how to tie tzitzit, regardless of whether you tie Ashkenazi, Sephardic, Yemenite, Chabad, techelet, etc., you may be wondering how snug to make that first knot.

This may sound like a very simple question, but it’s not (no pun intended). The issue behind how tight the first knot on the tzitzit should be is a halacha regarding where the tzitzit should hang down.

We know that the Karaites understood that tzitzit should be right on the corner, but Chazal determined that putting tzitzit on the kanaf, as the Torah says, actually means the hole should be near the corner, but not right on the corner. They held it should be at least the distance from your thumb knuckle to the tip of your thumbnail, and no more than the width of three fingers (Shulchan Aruch 11, 9). Today the standard distance is 5 cm, measured from the bottom and the side, not diagonally from the corner.

But there’s also another halacha that the tzitzit should be notef al hakeren, which means they should dangle in such a way that they fall right along the corner itself (Shulchan Aruch 11, 15). I often see people in shul, including full-time Talmudim scholars, who either are unfamiliar with this halacha, or don’t notice that their tzitzit have made their way onto the wrong edge.

So then a problem arises. If you don’t tie that first knot nice and snug, the tzitzit are going to roam around the corner and hang off the bottom edge of the tallit, which means they won’t be notef al hakeren at all. I see this all the time in shul, but I keep my mouth shut. Here are a few ways to approach the issue:

tzitzit first knot  

1. Make the first knot snug enough so that a bit of the cloth bunches up, which will prevent the tzitzit from sliding around the corner. The Chazon Ish recommended this solution, and today you will see diehard Chazon Ish adherents in Bnei Brak and elsewhere who take this to an extreme.

2. According to some opinions, if you bunch up the fabric too much you lose the required 5 cm between the hole and the edge of the garment. I’m under the impression that some Sephardim have a tradition of following this opinion, therefore they are careful not to bunch the fabric up at all. Even according to this opinion, it seems to me you can still bunch up the fabric a bit, because the minimum distance is actually a bit less than 5 cm, so you have some leeway.

3. One of the Lubavitcher rebbes a few generations ago wanted to have his cake and eat it too, so he devised a way to tie the tzitzit without bunching up the fabric and with no risk of the tzitzit wandering around to the wrong side. Take a close look at the Chabad tallit to see his innovative idea of anchoring the shamash string using a second hole in the tallit.

Note that some tallits have stiffer corners than others, so take this into account when deciding how tight to make the first tzitzit knot.

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Bar Mitzvah Tallit Sets

Many Judaica webstores offer bar mitzvah packages, which they usually calll a “bar mitzvah set.” I tried a few times to figure out how to put together bar mitzvah set options, but since the possible combinations are endless, I gave up. 

Almost everything on our website could conceivably go into a bar mitzvah set, a term that means something different to every parent. Some parents of bar mitzvah boys plan to buy a tallit, tallit bag and a set of tefillin. Others want a fabulous handmade tallit, matching tallit bag, matching kippah — and no tefillin. And still others have in mind a traditional wool tallit with special tzitzit, a nice tallit bag with the bar mitzvah boy’s name embroidered on it, and perhaps a PVC cover.

Since we are just about the only webstore on the globe that specializes in tallits, we can usually offer bar mitzvah parents a distinct advantage in the form of superb service, expert advice and a range of options that’s hard to find.

Magen David Tallit

Last week we received an unusual order for a bar mitzvah from a customer in Europe. He wanted two tallit sets and a set of very expensive, superb quality tefillin. 

He wanted the Galilee Magen David Tallit Set. I once spoke with the daughter of the designer, and she told me that of all the innumerous tallit sets her mother designs, the Magen David Tallit is her favorite.

The other tallit was very basic, a traditional wool tallit with blue stripes. I didn’t probe, but my guess is that either the Magen David Tallit is for the bar mitzvah and subsequent Shabbos use, while the other tallit is for weekday use, or else the second tallit is for a brother, and they wanted something simple so that the bar mitzvah boy wouldn’t be sharing the limelight. 

Sometimes we also have cases where the father of the bar mitzvah boy deems that in honor of the big event, it’s a good time for him to get a new tallit for himself.

Another interesting detail of this order was that the father ordered both talleisim with thick Ptil Tekhelet tzitzit, one tied according to the Raavad, and the other according to R. Amram Gaon. We rarely get orders for Raavad tzitzit tying, and we don’t even offer R. Amram Gaon tzitzit. But I am now reconsidering, because the R. Amram Gaon tying technique is very appealing aesthetically, and very straightforward halachically.

He also insisted we send the order via Federal Express, which costs an arm and a leg. For parents who are placing an order shortly before the bar mitzvah (say 2-3 weeks), we offer two express shipping options that are much more affordable

Traditional Tallit

Modern Tallit

Handwoven Tallit

Tefillin

Tallit Size Wizard

Tzitzit Wizard

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Tallit Sizing & Styles

Lately we’ve gotten a number of questions on tallit sizing from men 6′ tall and over (or from a bride buying a tallit for a tall groom). So in this post we’ll address tallit sizing for tall men. Here’s an interesting inquiry we received last week:

I think am interested in purchasing a Chabad tallit. I belong to a
Chabad shul in Lone tree, Colorado, but am not orthodox, although I have
been attending Shabbat services regularly for more than 4 years now and
will do so for the rest of my life.

My main concern is sizing. I am a 64-year-old. I am 6’2″,
195 pounds.

I am not happy with my current tallit becasue it is not long enough nor
wide enough.

I now want a tallit that will reflect my re-connection with my religion
4-plus years ago…I’m not interested in “fancy-schmancy.”

Your suggestions would be helpful and appreciated.

Thank
you for your inquiry. It was an honor for me to be able to help this earnest Jew outfit himself
for shul, and hopefully it will continue to be an integral part of his
life, may his years be long, healthy and happy.

So we needed to address two issues: tallit sizing and types of traditional tallits.

Sizing:
In Reform and Conservative congregations, most people wear a narrow
tallit that sits on the neck and hangs in front, not covering the back.
They are 18″ wide, 24″ wide or 36″ wide, therefore they are referred to
as a size 18, size 24 or size 36.

The
more traditional type, which drapes down the back, is a size 45, 50,
55, 60, 70, 80 or 90. On someone your height, I would estimate that a
size 55 would hang down in back to your waistline, a size 60 would reach
the top of your thighs and a size 70 would hang down to mid-thigh. Some
people over 6′ would even wear a size 80 or a size 90, but that’s a lot
of tallit to keep on your shoulders, and many people find the task to
be cumbersome and distracting.

Types of Tallit:
As my friend Shraga Simmons writes, “the current custom of black
stripes is keeping within the synagogue decorum, which has value in and
of itself.” If you decides to stick with black striping, I suggested he take a loot akt the
Prima A.A., Tashbetz, Chatanim and Hamefoar on this page.

To help sort through them, I referred him to the last paragraph on our Tallit FAQs page.

 “If you want a big of gray or silver or gold, you’ll find that there as well,” I added. Blue-striped tallits are also quite popular among many of our customers.

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Tallit for Kabbalistic Wedding

We get dozens of interesting questions every week, but this question about how to choose a tallit for a kabbalistic wedding was new to me. A young lady from New York sent the following inquiry.

Interested in the White Wool Classic Tallit
with silver pinstripes…It is for a kabbalistic wedding — any special things it
should have? Please let me know!

I told the bride-to-be that the only thing she really needs to pay special attention to is the tzitzit — what type and how they should be tied. I explained the following to her:

Type of Tzitzit:

I
would not recommend machine-spun. Decide whether you want to go with
all-white or techelet (blue). This is a matter of debate, so I’m not
sure how to advise you on that. If you decide to go with techelet, take a
look at this page.

Tzitzit Tying:

Regardless of which tzitzit you choose, you will want to choose Chabad/Arizal tzitzit tying.

If the groom is Sephardic, he may prefer Sephardic or Rambam tying.
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Chabad Tallit Options

Our Chabad tallis is quite popular. I don’t know whether most of our customers who choose it do so out of loyalty to Chabad, or simply because they like the rich striping. Yesterday we received the following inquiry:

I currently live in Western Canada. I would like to order a ‘Chabad’ tallit, size 70. Does the tallit come with tzitzit already fastened to the tallit? Thanks, Stan

We told Stan that to order a Chabad tallis he should go directly to our Chabad tallit and tzitzit page. The only difference between the two talleisim shown there is the type of fabric. One is smooth, and the other is textured. You can see the distinction if you zoom in on all of the images for each tallis.

Buy Chabad Tallis>>

When you select the size and tzitzis, you will see the price shown changes automatically, based on your selection.

We always tie the tzitzis on, unless you leave a note asking us to just include tzitzis strings for you to tie yourself.

The next day Stan ordered his Chabad tallis, opting to go with Radzin techeles tzitzis.

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Techelet with Rambam Tzitzit and Gra Tying

I have a friend named Eliezer who studies at Mir Yeshiva and wears Ptil Tekhelet on his tallit katan. This is noteworthy in and of itself, because the students at Mir Yeshiva conform to a very specific look, and techelet tzitzit does not fit into the picture. He has a policy of keeping his tzitzit tucked into his pants while at yeshiva, and lets them hang out when he’s out and about.

Yesterday I found myself sitting next to him on the bus, and during the course of our conversation he told me he uses Rambam techelet strings, but ties them according to the Gra. From a halachic perspective, the number of blue strings you see hanging down is a key matter. According to the Rambam (and the Arizal) there should be seven white strings and one blue string hanging down from each corner, whereas according to the other poskim, it should be six white and two blue.

The issue of how you tie the tzitzit is much less important, Eliezer says. Although Rambam tzitzit tying is often the choice among Sephardimi who start wearing techelet, it’s not uncommon among Ashkenazim. Eliezer told me that many years ago HaRav Fisher told his father that since there is no real masores for techelet tying customs, the Rambam is the most authoritative posek who delineated his opinion, therefore it should be followed.